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CAPPS
Notes - October 17, 2001
I. Welcome - Cliff
Changes to CAPPS website & Calendar of Events (Lynda) - Recently
we made some changes to the CAPPS website (located at www.nfc.usda.gov)
which included the addition of a Calendar of Events for 2001 and will
add events for 2002 soon. Weve added work group and user group meetings,
testing, and training information. The dates and times of each are included.
Please take a look at it and if you have items you want added or changed,
let Lynda Wilson know via LWILSON@cfo.usda.gov.
II. PAY - Cliff
A. Retention Allowance Computation
change in PP-23
NFC will make a minor change to the retention allowance computation
program, effective pay period 23. The change will generally add 20-40
cents to the employees biweekly retention allowance payment. The
previous computation was done on a pay period basis rather than on the
employees hourly rate as required by regulation. Please alert
your POIs about this upcoming change.
B. Physicians Comparability Allowance
Change in PP-23
This item only applies to the few agencies that have Physicians who
are paid a comparability allowance - AID (1), LOC (1), USDA (2), Peace
Corps (5), and DOJ (203). Effective Pay Period 26 of 2000, (December
31, 2000) the Physicians Comparability Allowance constituted basic pay
for purposes of retirement deductions and TSP deductions under both
CSRS and FERS. To date, OPM has still not issued any guidance as to
the documentation of the PCA on the employees SF-50 or retirement
record card. Beginning in Pay Period 23, NFC will begin retirement and
TSP deductions from employees biweekly PCA payments. After implementation
of retirement and TSP deductions in the system, agencies will need to
process AD-343''s to collect retirement deductions on PCA payments retroactive
to Pay Period 26. Agencies will also need to contact employees to determine
if they wish to make up the missed TSP employee contributions and process
AD-343's to process Agency 1% and matching contributions as needed.
Agencies should consult with their Benefits Officers for guidance on
the TSP contributions. PPSPS will provide additional information on
the PCA implementation and payroll action requests under separate cover
to the affected agencies.
C. Annual Pay Limitations
As we mention each year, the NFC Payroll/Personnel System has no annual
limitation on pay or aggregate limitation on pay. The system currently
does not contain sufficient data fields to capture all the cumulative
pay data required to monitor annual and aggregate pay. With an increase
in the waivers of the biweekly limitation on premium pay, this is a
hot issue. Several agencies have indicated that this is a high priority
for them and have listed it in their database expansion responses to
ASD. Since a number of agencies have unique pay requirements, some exempted
from Title 5, NFC has requested that we establish a work group to develop
requirements for the annual pay limitations. PPSPS will put out a call
for Work Group members in the near future. We feel that it is imperative
that the Work Group be composed of both systems staff and compensation
experts from several of the agencies.
III. Military Personnel -
Cliff/Jo
A. Leave
We have received many calls at the Center and
PPSPS regarding military leave. Military leave was discussed at length
in the October 2nd T&A workgroup meeting and members requested that
it be brought up CAPPS to get the word out. NFC has not been able to
make the change for military leave from calendar days to hours. An NFC
Bulletin will be issued shortly with updated guidance for timekeepers.
TINQ actions will be necessary in most cases to modify days worked for
TC 65 or TC 68. The new STAR web will also record military leave in
daily increments until a database changes has been made to enable the
mainframe to properly record this time in hours. There are basically
four (4) types of military leave:
- 120 hours (15-8 hour days) of military leave
each fiscal year for reservists and National Guard members for active
duty, inactive-duty training, or field or coast defense training under
5 USC 6323(a); an employee can carryover up to 120 hours of unused
military leave from the prior fiscal year;
- 22 days of emergency military leave
each calendar year for reservists or National Guard members to provide
aid to enforce the law or provide assistance to civil authorities
in the protection or saving of life or property or the prevention
of injury under 5 USC 6323(b),
- Unlimited military leave to members of the
D.C. National Guard for each day of parade or encampment.
- 44 days of military leave each calendar year
for use by military reserve technicians who are on active duty without
pay, as authorized pursuant to section 12315 of title 10, under section
12301(b) or 12301(d) of title 10 (other than active duty during a
war or national emergency declared by the President or Congress) for
participation in operations outside the United States, its territories
and possessions.
The majority of employees using military leave
since the September 11th attacks are utilizing regular (#1) and emergency
military (#2).
Only employees who are serving on a permanent or temporary indefinite
appointment may use military leave. It is also limited to employees
who work a full-time or a part-time work schedule. The hours available
to a part-time employee are prorated based upon his/her tour of duty
hours.
Some agencies are reporting the military orders are vague and it is
difficult to determine whether the employee should be given regular
military leave or emergency military leave. In these instances,
the timekeeper should call the Headquarters or CO office for clarification
of the military orders.
Under some circumstances, a reservist or National Guard member may
be entitled to both the 120 hours (possibly up to 240 hours) of regular
military leave as well as the 22 days of emergency military
leave in the calendar year. In addition, if the employee chooses to
do so, he/she may use annual leave, compensatory time, or credit hours
prior to, or in conjunction with, using regular or emergency military
leave.
Keep in mind if the employee uses emergency military (22 days under
5 USC 6323(b)), his/her federal salary must be offset by his/her military
pay for the 22 day period. The agency must submit an AD-343 to offset
the military pay. In order to avoid adverse tax implications, this should
be done before the end of tax year in which the leave is used. NOTE:
There is no offset of pay for employees using regular military
leave (120 hours every fiscal year under 5 USC 6323(a)) - or annual
leave, compensatory time, or credit hours - in lieu of emergency military
leave.
Employees with use or lose annual leave should be advised
to schedule and use their use or lose annual leave or apply
for a lump sum payment of all annual leave so that their use or
lose annual leave is not forfeited at the end of the leave year.
In the past, employees had to actually be in a combat zone in order
to qualify to have their forfeited annual leave restored. If employees
request a Lump Sum Payment of annual leave, they must have ALL their
annual and restored annual leave paid and once paid, the annual leave
cannot be re-credited or paid back upon their return.
One further note on military leave, the Payroll/Personnel Manual,
Chapter 7, Section 4 states that reservists and National Guard members
in the Washington, D. C. area receive 18 days of military leave. This
is not correct. Reservists and National Guard members in the Washington,
D.C. area receive 120 hours of regular military leave each
fiscal year and 22 days of emergency military leave each
calendar year, like reservists and National Guard members throughout
the country. (NOTE: They may receive unlimited days for the purpose
of a parade or encampment as indicated in #2 above. However, leave used
for this purpose does not affect the 120 hours available for regular
military use.)
Please remind your timekeepers of a major change in the military leave
regulations. When military leave was converted to hours, time covering
non-workdays (e.g., weekends or holidays as military time) was removed
from the calculation. Previously all days (including weekends and holidays)
occurring during the time period covered by the military orders were
counted toward the 15 day ceiling. Now, only the hours for which the
employee would have been in a work status should be counted toward his/her
120 hour military leave ceililng.
B. Reservist benefits: www.dol.gov/asp/programs/handbook/userra.htm
www.opm.gov/oca/compmemo/2001/2001-09A.htm
OPM memo 2001-9 was sent out and these references are very useful.
IV. Asst & Clerks, 203's Parenthetical
(Info Systems) - Cliff
PMSO Suffix Codes - With the issuance of the new classification standard
for the GS-203 series, OPM implemented a new parenthetical, information
systems. However, OPM did not assign a suffix code for this parenthetical.
OPM informed us that these individuals were not entitled to special pay
rates, (e.g., GS-203-05 employees in the Washington, D.C. area are not
covered by SSR Table 0029). Agencies have called because they want their
employee to be covered by the special rates. We strongly encourage the
agencies to contact OPM with their concerns and request OPM reconsideration
of this determination. In the interim, if agencies use the Office Automation
suffix code C, the system will continue to pay special rates.
V. SPPS Testing - Cliff
We started on October 16, 2001 and like most of
our testing, there was a minor glitch yesterday afternoon but the system
was up and running by end of the day. Customs person from Indianapolis
tested with us until late yesterday. We appreciate her support and input.
NFC personnel will be here through Friday to work with Agency testers.
Have your testers come in and take a look at this system. Testing will
be evaluated on Friday and a determination on additional testing will
be made at that time.
VI. Update 38 to the Guide to Processing
Personnel Actions - Cliff
Effective November 4, 2001 - If youre not on OPMs mailing
list, Cliff will send out this update via email. (Update 38 email was
sent to CAPPS representatives on October 17th) Cliff suggested you let
your offices know that there are some minor changes to SES Limited &
Limited Emergency Appts. OPM changed authority code AWM to
read OPM Form 1652 to correctly document SES approvals. Well modify
NFC TABLES to reflect these changes.
VII. Salary Offset - Agency Process (SOAP)
- Cliff
Treasurys Offset Program - This salary offset of 15% for
Federal debts was authorized by the Debt Collection Improvement Act of
1996. Treasurys Financial Management Service (FMS) requested that
NFC be the first payroll office to implement the TOP process. NFC is currently
receiving only Federal delinquent debt; in the future delinquent child
support debt and IRS tax levies will be added to the mix.. FMS sends a
listing to NFC biweekly that is matched against the database. If there
is a match, NFC sends out a warning notice to the employee
indicating the debt, the debtor agency, and an agency contact. (For Federal
tax levies, no warning letters will be issued) Employees are
advised unless arrangements are made with the debtor agency, NFC will
initiate a salary offset of 15% in 30 days. If the employing agency currently
is collecting a salary offset on the employee, the current agency salary
offset takes precedence.
Agency POIs will not be provided a copy of the NFC warning
notice since this is not a debt with the employing agency. Employees
must deal directly with the debtor agency to resolve the debt or the salary
offset will begin in 30 days. PQ051 will show the TOP debt under Code
52 = Top Federal Delinquent Debt For your information, Code 51 = TOP Child
Support and Code 53 = TOP Federal Tax Levies will be used when that phase
of the program is implemented.
For your information, in the first pay period FMS referred 2,000-3,000
names to NFC and NFC had 87 matches. FMS expects the number of referrals
to increase as agencies certify that employees have been given due process
notification. If employees call your POIs regarding TOP debts, they
should be referred to the debtor agency or Treasurys Offset Program
Call Center at 1-800-304-3107. It is not the POIs responsibility
to intervene on the employees behalf. It is considered a private
debt matter and the employees responsibility.
Question: Will debtor agencies receive
the notification? Answer: The debtor agency
initiates the action with FMS, certifies to FMS the existence of the delinquent
debt and that the employee has been given due process.
VIII. Implementation of EPIC 2.0 - Lynda
The new NFC Logon, EPIC v2.0, WTWO, EARN, and WTWO Reports software will
be made available in mid-October for downloading at NFC's Download Center.
The Download Center is accessible from NFC's homepage (www.nfc.usda.gov).
If you have any problems downloading the software, please send a message
to the NFC Webmaster at nfc.webmaster@usda.gov.
The effective date for using the software is beginning of business on
November 13, 2001. This is different than the date reported in the meeting.
NFC upgraded to a new version of the development software which required
the regeneration of each of the applications. If you are using EPIC, WTWO,
or EARN in either the Training or Production environment, you must download
the new NFC Logon and the new applications to replace what you are currently
using.
Several IT individuals have contacted us about downloading and installing
the software prior to the 13th. Prior to the 10th, you may download the
software and can install all the new applications into the same folders
as the old versions EXCEPT for the NFCLogon. On the 10th, NFC will begin
moving the new software into production, so HR offices will not be able
to use EARN, WTWO, or EPIC on the 10th, 11th, or 12th. Beginning on the
10th, you may use Start>Settings>Control
Panel> Add/Remove Programs to uninstall the NFC Logon and then
install the new NFC Logon. At the same time, you should also uninstall
the old versions of the applications. Additional information about removing
the software may be found in the Knowledge Base which is also accessible
from NFCs home
page.
You may choose to wait until November 13th to load
the software. If so, use Start>Settings>Control
Panel> Add/Remove Programs to uninstall
the NFC Logon and applications and then install the new NFC Logon and
applications. Additional information about adding and removing the software
may be found in the technical guidance provided in the NFC Support Center
at http://www.nfc.usda.gov/support/hdg/pcbased/index.htm.
Use the process which works best for you; however, please remember that
the old versions of software are not useable starting on the 10th, so
the HR and payroll offices will not be able to enter or correct documents,
troubleshoot EARN and WTWO problems, etc. until the new software is operational
on their desks.
Also remember that you must request security access to EPIC History Corrections
for those individuals who will be using the new process. Having access
to HCUP (the old process) does not automatically guarantee access to the
new.
If you have any questions, call Lynda Wilson at 202-720-2199 or e-mail
at Lynda_L.Wilson@usda.gov
or call Mark Liegey on 202-720-2237 or e-mail at Mark.Liegey@usda.gov.
IX. Benefits Updates
- Jody
A. Update on TSP corrections
For pp 9-12's corrections, NFC has made these corrections and the AD-343's
at NFC are being processed. If you have not sent your 343's in, please
do so immediately. We want to take this opportunity to thank NFC
(ASD & FSD) for all their hard work in reviewing the hundreds of
actions, actually 1,397 of them, and making the system sweep to correct
their TSP Eligibility Codes. The sweep was completed in pp 19 and Manual
Pay is now processing the AD-343's to correct the monies. Again, thanks
to all involved in correcting these errors.
Note: There may be a few AD-343's needed for actions corrected
in pp 13; if this is the case, NFC will notify the agency to submit
the AD-343.
As for the pp 1-8 accession action errors, in
order to get these actions corrected, NFC will work with you in getting
the corrections in the system; however, they do not have the time to
gather the background materials. We are asking agencies to submit the
following information, per employee, as a package:
- a screenprint of IRIS 102 which reflects the accession date,
- a screenprint of IRIS 118 which reflects the TSP Eligibility Code,
Date & SCD-TSP,
- an AD-343 reflecting corrective action is necessary and the pps
involved, and;
- cover note indicating what the correct TSP Eligibility Code and
Date should be.
Mail all of this via FedEx to your Manual Pay
Contact (either Louise, Mose or Nick) at:
USDA/National Finance Center/Payroll
Attn: enter payroll contact name here
PO Box 60,000
New Orleans, LA 70160
Do not FAX any of these forms - NFC will only accept them as a total
package, per employee.
In order to process this before the end of the year, NFC must receive
this information no later than November 7,
2001. Each POI can send their packages in one FedEx envelope
to their Manual Pay Contact, it does not have to be submitted as a group
from a Department. If the packages, via FedEx, are not received by November
7th, then POIs will have to make corrections on their own.
We cant stress enough the importance of entering the correct
TSP Eligibility Code and Date. If you have questions or concerns about
the correct codes to enter, please check with your Agency Benefits Officer
and if after doing this you still have concerns, please email Jody at
JNYERS@cfo.usda.gov. Continued
entry of incorrect codes will compound this problem.
B. FEHB & TSP Open Seasons are
just around the corner
FEHB Open Season is November 12th - December 10th. NFC has not yet
updated the Tables with the new rates; we are waiting on OPM to send
them out to the agencies. The effective date of FEHB changes will be
the first day of the first pay period in January, which is January 13,
2002 (01/13/02).
TSP Open Season is November 15th - January 31st (2002).
C. Re-employed Annuitants & FEHB
Notification to OPM
NFC contacted PPSPS about a retired annuitant who chose to elect FEHB
coverage with their employer, and this is acceptable however not required.
When the retirees appointment was terminated so was their health
coverage. At that time, OPM requires notification so that there is no
break-in-service of coverage for FEHB. In checking the regulations,
OPM issued a BAL in April 2001 indicating that it is an agencys
responsibility to notify OPM (via email to HBPremiums@opm.gov)
of the retirees returning to health coverage via OPM. It is not
the payroll offices responsibility.
Please review BAL 01-105, found at http://www.opm.gov/asd/pdg/2001/01-105.pdf
for additional information and instructions.
X. Electronic Bulletins
- Lynda
The Web version of NFC procedures is now the official version. No more
amendments to be incorporated into the procedure. Hard copies will not
be mailed to users unless they are specifically requested. DAB is in the
process of redesigning the AD-1083 and are setting up the data base so
that they can e-mail bulletins to those customers who request it. Working
on technical difficulties with data base and have draft bulletin with
new process. Hope to have it to you sometime in November.
Everyone likes the idea of the electronic notification as long as a process
is in place for those organizations that do not yet have the software
or authorization to use the internet to access the home page. That is
available so not a problem. Also recommended that when DAB mails out the
notices that addresses be deleted for those offices that do not responde.
A lot of offices have moved because of reorganizations and they have been
unable to change addresses. Some offices get more than one distribution
because they are on different distribution lists and should be able to
respond once and then have all the others dropped rather than having to
respond multiple times - once for each mailing. How is being on multiple
distribution lists going to be handled??
XI. Reporting Center
- Lynda
NFC is looking for a few good people to participate in User Acceptance
Testing of additional functionality of the Reporting Center. As you know,
the Reporting Center is intended for use by managers HR specialists, and
other employees of federal agencies serviced by NFC.
The first phase included statistical report in the Administrative, Financial,
Personnel and Workforce Planning areas. The new functionality includes
the ability to obtain the detail behind the information on the alphabetical
rosters and position organization listings. Once the problems and recommended
enhancements are made to this area, we will add functionality to include
ad hoc reports and finally the ability to see the detail behind all the
statistical reports.
User Acceptance is scheduled to begin October 22 and continue through
November 9. Participants will need to request access to the NFC Reporting
Center Phase II User Acceptance Test area through their agency security
officer. Security will mirror the production security access. Please be
aware that in the situations where employees do not have access to sensitive
data, there may be some fields that are blank because the individual does
not have access. Security officers will be provided with a list of individuals
with access to sensitive data in the Reporting Center. This list will
need to be reviewed by each agency representative to verify that access
to sensitive information is needed. Please provide to Lynda Wilson the
name, user id, agency, phone number, and e-mail address of each participant
in the testing. The e-mail addresses will be added to a distribution list
that will be used to provide information about the testing and problems.
We will also assure this information is distributed to the CAPPS community.
A kick off meeting for the testing will be held at 10:00 a.m. on Monday,
October 22, 2001, in the USDA Training Center, 1400 Independence Avenue,
Room 1623, Washington DC. A presentation and demo will be provided on
the reports to be tested, the process for reporting problems or questions,
and other details associated with testing. Testers or an agency test coordinators
are asked to attend the session. Guidance will be provided for those individuals
unable to attend, so please let me know if you are not going to make it.
XII. Workgroup Updates
A. T&A - Jo
- STAR Testing
- Jo thanked those who have participated in the user acceptance testing.
Several problems have occurred (e.g., access to the server, security,
program, etc.,) and tester diligence, patience, and understanding has
been appreciated. Due to the problems encountered, testing has been
extended through the week of October 26th. Several individuals requested
test IDs but have not participated. It is in an agencys
best interest to participate in this type of testing so that any agency
unique functionality can be tested.
- T&A Requirements - When the representatives
from NFCs Requirements and Development Branch (RDC) met with the
T&A user community on August 1- 2, 2001 regarding STAR requirements,
there were several assignments for the T&A work group.
The work group decided at the October 2nd meeting that with the current
situation (i.e., additional workload due to September 11th, routine
end-of-year changes, and the holiday season) that these assignments
should be put on hold until January.
B. Leave Share - Jo
- The work group is continuing to meet bi-weekly for two-day sessions
in an effort to complete the requirements package prior to the holiday
season. The requirements covers all three leave share systems (Voluntary
Leave Transfer Program, Voluntary Leave Bank Program, and Emergency
Leave Transfer Program) and contains a large amount of detailed information.
The package is currently about 500 pages and is expected to grow. The
participation of work group members is greatly appreciated - special
thanks to those participating on a regular basis. Please contact Jo
on 202-720-8721 or at jbonner@cfo.usda.gov
if you wish to join or send a representative.
- On November 7-8, NFCs RDCB staff will be meeting with the Leave
Share work group to discuss the package. If you have not been participating
but would like to have someone participate in this meeting, please contact
Jo immediately. Due to the size of the requirements package and the
complexity of the programs, representatives will need as much time as
possible to review these items. All participants should be familiar
with the requirements package and the leave share systems prior to the
meeting.
C. Awards - Jo
- Programming changes related to Table 043 (e.g.,
C023, C024,) are expected to go to production in PP-23.
- There have recent problems with the posting of the IRIS 542 screens.
Upon additional discussions with Becky Mistretta, it appears that these
are not new, but that there is a problem in the programming that occurs
when the award goes to ADJP. While NFC has tried to minimize the number
of awards that might go to ADJP, they have not been able to prevent
all from doing so, nor has ADJP been reprogrammed. The reprogramming
of ADJP will take a major effort and will be done at a later date. DOJ
requested that NFC provide guidance on circumstances cause an award
to go to ADJP so that agencies may either work around them or at least
have an idea of what is going to happen. Jo will see what can be done
on this issue.
- Wanda Vaughan reported that DOJ has also found cases where the IRIS
142 data (e.g., appropriation data, award code, award type) appears
incorrect once the action passes to IRIS 542. DOJ has already sent screen
prints to Becky reflecting these. Jo will follow-up with Becky on the
status of these issues. This was mentioned early on in the awards workgroup
and its in the document; however, problem still remains. Could
see action processed via EPIC but code and type was not reflected. Doesnt
not show correct literal either...error has occurred from October 2000.
Treasury agreed they have the same problems. The only stable items are
the NOAC, the amount of the award, and Award Type Code. Unfortunately
were worse now than we were before...changes have got to be made
to repair all these problems. Jo will reissue the info to the reps she
has to come up with a decision about this.
- Award Payment Code - In the December 2000 Awards work group
meeting, the January 2001 CAPPS meeting, and the August 2001 CAPPS meeting
all representatives present agreed that the Generate Payment Code
should be removed from the NFC entry screens for all SPOT awards (NOAs
840and 841 with authority V3F, 9KE, or PAY). Instead NFC should automatically
insert the code of 0" on these documents so that the figures
would be grossed up when reported to IRIS 542, SF-50B, W-2, etc. This
would prevent processing clerks from improperly coding the input document.
With this methodology Agencies would not be permitted to pay SPOT cash
awards via Manual Pay. Apparently Agencies are re-thinking this issue
and submitting SPOT cash awards to Manual pay - for payment and not
just correcting the W-2, if the award paid via NFC (840/841 with PAY)
was for an incorrect amount. NFC should not be blocking this field on
the input screen if agencies are going to do this. Jo is requesting
that CAPPS representatives talk with their staffs and determine which
way they want NFC to program this function. There is no way to mandate
the field to guarantee correct entry on all SPOT award documents AND
permit manual payment (or adjustments) of SPOT awards. Please submit
your Departments preference to Jo (jbonner@cfo.usda.gov)
prior to the next CAPPS meeting (November 28th).
- A new bulletin is currently being prepared to provide updated guidance
on the payment of SPOT cash awards via NFC. When the bulletin notifying
clients that the 840 and 841 NOAs with the PAY authority were
available, NFC indicated that the award could be stopped by calling
manual pay the day after the action had applied to PINE but prior to
the morning schedule issuance. This information was incorrect and once
the document has passed through PINE applied to the database, there
is no mechanism to stop the payment. Agencies will need to follow the
award cancellations procedures when this has occurred. However, if the
agency deletes the action before it passes through PINE and applies
to the database, the payment will not be issued.
D. EPIC - Wanda Vaughan/Lynda
QA all done, thanks to those that participated.
Some telecommunications problems, which dont allow access all
the time to EPIC; this is not an EPIC problem, its a telecommunications
problem. Lynda will work with the users to locate the problem to resolve
it rather than going back to PACT to process actions.
Implementation guidance will be issued to those
agencies who are not currently using EPIC.
E. PODS - Lynda
No report as Mary is out of the office this week.
F. RIF - Debby Berry
At the October 11th meeting the group finished reviewing the RIF specification
package that was developed by Kay Fields and Mary Arnold. The group
requested that Cliff forward the specification package to the CAPPS
community before the October CAPPS meeting. Cliff e-mailed the package
to the CAPPS representatives on October 15th. If you need a FAX copy,
please contact Debbie on 202-418-1498. The work group is requesting
that offices have their retention specialists review the package and
forward any comments to Debbie via their CAPPS representative. All comments
are due to Debbie (DBERRY@fcc.gov)
by the November CAPPS meeting (November 28th).
G. FESI - Hans
Telecom meeting scheduled for early October was cancelled. Window
opened on Monday, 10/15/01.
XIII. Potpourri - All
Ginny Peck, BPD, mentioned SF-1150's for pp 18 and 19 reflected an incorrect
sick leave balance; if the amount is over four characters, the system
only prints 3 characters therefore reflecting an incorrect balance. For
example: employee had 1240 sick leave and 1150 reflected 124. This could
be in the print program; PPSPS will submit as an SPR with FAXed copy from
Ginny.
Note: Next meeting is November 28th in Room 5030-South
Bldg at 9am. There will not be a December meeting.
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